00:00:02: Hello, and welcome to the series games podcast all about playful methods for interactive trainings and facilitation.

00:00:10: Let's get started.

00:00:11: And Welcome back to this serious games podcast once again with two guests.

00:00:16: I'm happy too.

00:00:17: Welcome Hanan and Mooneesh To the podcast before I introduce you and ask you to introduce yourself.

00:00:23: Well come to the show first

00:00:25: Thank You thank you for having us Julian.

00:00:27: Thank you so much

00:00:31: Wonderful.

00:00:32: You are connected from Cairo, Egypt and I know you've found it the compassionate universe And we want to learn all about this...and i know that you spend decades in parenting and character education That you worked on research in California so obviously in US You know, you have coaching programs in the MENA region.

00:01:01: That is great already.

00:01:03: and then on top of that now...you've created I think about sixteen maybe even more games um conversational games i guess for most of them.

00:01:13: today we're going to talk about one And it's called Glucose Even though-and Now I'm gonna look to Monish literally sitting in Berlin and Tempelhof.

00:01:26: And, Monish I know that you... That's how we met right?

00:01:30: In the series games for serious change community.

00:01:35: Once there was like an open mic moment.

00:01:37: then you shared that your playing a specific game called Cloud Four.

00:01:44: Then you mentioned Hanan.

00:01:45: so thats how you connected us.

00:01:47: So thankyouforthat!

00:01:51: Let you introduce yourself.

00:01:53: I know that your consultant, working with Ruby on Rails as a non-tech person and this is always hard for me to explain but obviously worked in many different countries And speaking at different meetups here in Berlin So... Here are my two initial questions What should our listeners know about YOU?

00:02:18: And how do you explain?

00:02:20: Let's start with the first game.

00:02:21: Okay, How Do You Explain Glucose to someone who has never heard about it?

00:02:26: Sure let me say something because I met Moanesh in Bali and i was so excited bringing some of my games.

00:02:34: He got interested.

00:02:36: We followed through together.

00:02:38: This is why we're here for like Moaneshe introduced Me To You Then were having this.

00:02:43: So thankyou for this kind of connection.

00:02:49: When I started the games, in a conference December, November of twenty-twenty two.

00:03:01: And I was before that it was...I developed a certain game like similar to cloud four and i took It with me To this in conference In order to just try it out With some Of the speakers.

00:03:13: then I Was given This chance to Try it Out!

00:03:15: I was A speaker as well.

00:03:18: The conference was called Appearancehood on Conference So I was getting this Chance of playing Cloud Ford at That time was named Express.

00:03:27: So I told my colleagues, my speakers and other speakers in the conference that...I'm just trying to get out.

00:03:35: And seeing how it's gonna work!

00:03:38: And i was surprised.

00:03:40: like so many people liked it they gave me their feedback..and went back home to Cairo ..and started developing an idea of ...i really would love for people listen one another.

00:03:52: I'd love if people can have empathy Because me and Mohanesh were in Bali, attending an intensive program of non-violence communication that is focused on how to listen with empathy.

00:04:06: So I was also inspired from NVC as well.

00:04:09: so i started creating some more conversational games that help people understand one another.

00:04:16: And when I ask myself my question, who am and what do i want to do as a purpose in life?

00:04:22: I want to cultivate compassion!

00:04:24: So this is where I started having the name Compassionate Universe.

00:04:33: any kind of different ethnicity, nationality or religion.

00:04:38: Any background.

00:04:39: when we listen to one another We find out that there's a lot of similarities and then were so humbled to understand humanity.

00:04:47: So this is where I got so much enthusiastic about producing more games in the speed of light.

00:04:55: At one particular year in twenty-twenty three i invented eight games.

00:05:01: And I was blessed because i had this kind of intuition, doing something for humanity and intuition for doing a lot of games.

00:05:14: Every time I finish the game, there is a game that's building in my head before the other one has finished!

00:05:18: So i said it's not me... It's something else.

00:05:20: It's beyond my abilities?

00:05:23: Lovely.

00:05:24: So..I started different games.

00:05:27: You asked about Glokos and you started how I started the game.

00:05:32: And thats all fine!

00:05:33: Before you come to Glokosa we can share this early Name especially now that you mentioned the cloud for was called express before and then glucose.

00:05:46: in all of your games or mostly these correct me if I'm wrong.

00:05:51: You said are backed based on different parts of research, right?

00:05:58: So so maybe we can also unpacked it a little bit.

00:06:01: but now over to you.

00:06:02: four glucose and then Monash.

00:06:04: over to

00:06:08: So because I'm the field of coaching, so i learned a lot about how to empower people.

00:06:14: How to positive psychology as well?

00:06:16: From The Field Of Positive Psychology Barbara Fredrickson introduced like ten positive emotions that would help people empower them To feel good About who they are and Feel Good About the world so That They can perform better in life.

00:06:30: So, and she did a couple of experiments where she induced positive emotion.

00:06:35: And she found out with students they are performing well in their exams.

00:06:40: She did it with doctors.

00:06:41: They were able to write the reports and diagnose really better.

00:06:46: so then she did was mothers people with positive emotions, let them feel positive at the moment.

00:06:56: They would perform better.

00:06:58: and she had a theory called Broughton and Built Theory where when you're happy your perspective opens up.

00:07:05: so it broadens your perspective understanding things seeing new things connecting with new idea.

00:07:11: So this is the idea of Broden, and then when you are Broden to see other perspectives.

00:07:16: You build neural connection more so your structure understanding would be widened as well.

00:07:23: Wonderful, wonderful.

00:07:24: Well I think in two minutes you mentioned five things that i will all link to the show notes okay?

00:07:30: So for everyone who wants to look up Frank Richardson's work or specifically this study and what we'll get into a little bit more because of course all the study in one game.

00:07:45: But what's the difference, Monish?

00:07:48: What is it different to Cloud Four?

00:07:51: I know they are all similar conversational games but can you elaborate a little bit on how do explain Cloud Four when you introduce into team or maybe even client and what should we about that game where not going talk

00:08:10: Sure.

00:08:11: For me, the cloud for game has been a lot about emotional awareness, emotional regulation

00:08:17: and

00:08:18: you know like all of us humans have different emotions that we go through in different phases of our life And it's kind of fluctuating sometimes based on the environment Based on where they are at life given point-of-time.

00:08:31: Sometimes We don't get chance to talk with them very much On regular basis And that's where, you know this game all the more touched my heart.

00:08:39: I think it connects with a lot of people because we've got to talk about this in a vulnerable way.

00:08:46: and what makes this game also special is Hanan.

00:08:50: when she came up at Cloud for Game When We Met At Bali She even mentioned about this thing called as The Pledge.

00:08:56: So we really wanted to introduce psychological safety.

00:08:59: People should feel they are home talking about themselves And that's where this game really, truly comes alive.

00:09:07: Where we at least make a conscious attempt to ask people like can you Atleast Make A Verbal Pledge That Whatever You Share Is Going To Be Stayed Within The Game Among All Of Us and It'll Not be Used In Any Way whatsoever Outside of the Scope Of The Game?

00:09:23: We Will Respect This Privacy That Way So That Brought An All The More Connection in Its Own Way.

00:09:29: I Would Say One of the things which really stuck out with me when I played one these games, even in Germany and Hamburg.

00:09:35: There was one participant who went to degree saying that this is so much better than even therapy because people got to share what something deep within them maybe some other thing might not easily bring up for then they were able.

00:09:57: You know, the way that game is structured.

00:09:59: What when how?

00:10:00: where?

00:10:00: they kind of use these questions as like a thrower dice and make it with different emotions?

00:10:07: It makes asking questions all the more genuine from every question participant And it really shows curiosity That people already have about each other.

00:10:19: So I would say that kind of sums up why this game something people love Is.

00:10:24: you ask them on-the-fly respond to them on the fly and even see people's body language, their tone as well.

00:10:37: through conversations, sparking that curiosity.

00:10:40: And then what you said earlier right?

00:10:42: I mean obviously this thing is one part but it needs to be someone who shares.

00:10:46: so i'm more than happy we can now unpack a little bit how the free flowing state is facilitated and brought into.

00:11:01: What was first?

00:11:02: I mean, you

00:11:03: saw

00:11:04: Barbara Frederickson's work or did he had the name in mind first?

00:11:08: because again there is lots of... and help me out here right.

00:11:15: There are a lot positive emotions that she mentions like ten.

00:11:19: just did rough research okay.

00:11:22: And of course we need to say that all emotions are helpful, right?

00:11:27: Of course some emotions are more pleasant than others.

00:11:32: Some are more energizing then other's.

00:11:35: So tell me what did she pick and how you picked the subset Glucose?

00:11:43: I think it's in seven.

00:11:45: How do come up?

00:11:46: and also saw that you renamed a few.

00:11:51: Walk us shortly through a little bit this moment where you thought, okay.

00:11:54: This is how I'm going to put this together with some game mechanics.

00:11:57: and then of course um i'll let You talk us through what happens in the room?

00:12:02: And uh and munishin and hanan all The wonderful experiences that your participants had and how they emerged.

00:12:11: Okay so I play with acronym All right.

00:12:13: So the word glucose Is glucose.

00:12:16: That gives you boosted energy Right And positive emotions would give you a boost of energy, according to Barbara Fredrickson.

00:12:23: So I said okay glucose is always like.

00:12:26: it gives you energy if your in an ER room the first thing that you get at glucose.

00:12:32: so people are feeling down and they just forget about good things up into their life should just retrieve even good memories talking about positive moments in there lives That will bring positivity and boosting their energy Like glucose.

00:12:47: So I borrowed some emotions from the ten positive emotions of Barbara Fredrickson.

00:12:53: And i added three, two.

00:12:57: come up with a word glucose.

00:13:02: The acronym goes like this G for gratitude L for love U for understood.

00:13:09: This is my part and C confidence from me as well Optimism As serenity and excitement.

00:13:19: So, excitement for me as well.

00:13:21: I took four out of her ten positive emotions And i added three more to come up with the word glucose boosting energy.

00:13:29: How did you make that selection?

00:13:30: Was it a deliberate one or Did those...

00:13:38: Like confidence would always boost people's energy.

00:13:42: Being understood also is really important.

00:13:44: so these are two things.

00:13:46: And then the third one, like excitement is in the peak of excitement.

00:13:50: So that would always boost your energy.

00:13:53: so these three things I added.

00:13:56: it made the word glucose and i was really happy.

00:13:58: And this is how I come up with...I have another game called sucrose and fructose.

00:14:06: All the sugars!

00:14:08: Wonderful, all those sugars oh my god.

00:14:10: now i can imagine what it's being served in a room.

00:14:14: Now walk us through.

00:14:15: um I'm happy to also put actually link your website, but I'll also put some pictures in the podcast player.

00:14:23: So if you're a podcast players support that and look at it now... But can you walk us through little bit of materials?

00:14:29: That you need to prepare or do take to facilitate this game?

00:14:36: I actually design a game myself, I draw it first and then i printed on different materials until bring the best material.

00:14:42: that is good.

00:14:44: And so I print the cards...I bring the dice to have logos or letters of the dice.

00:14:52: So everything like my cards are here.

00:14:55: these are cards for Gugos.. I've got the drawer next me which has tokens.

00:15:02: I have my player pegs as well.

00:15:04: Can you see the player peg?

00:15:05: Yes, they did that very well!

00:15:06: So this is the dice for the word Lukos because Luko's has six letters and G doesn't come here in the dice.

00:15:17: so i prepared a material...I printed it many times until i get the best version of whatever to play with.

00:15:27: sometimes i print the pouches zipper bags for it.

00:15:33: These are the materials that I bring, and then just a board again board usual traditional gameboard.

00:15:41: you can roll the dice You can pick up cards or answer some of your questions And get a token after answering.

00:15:48: people would celebrate your answers For the glucose.

00:15:52: i have slides of happiness.

00:15:54: so in the board there's slides every time you're answering completing whatever was of the chord, emotions.

00:16:02: You slide down this light with your player pack and you make a sound cheering yourself going down.

00:16:08: so it's more little entertainment parts that I add as fun!

00:16:14: As well.

00:16:14: ask deep questions.

00:16:15: they answer through the chords.

00:16:20: Wonderful but help me out.

00:16:23: what's on the dice?

00:16:26: The letter look hose L U C O S E.

00:16:31: what happens to the G?

00:16:33: The g is the first chord in there.

00:16:35: In the game everybody gets two without playing like Without.

00:16:40: so they got to go that it's a share of gratitude and their life,

00:16:44: okay.

00:16:49: So the first round that everybody picks, The card of gratitude.

00:16:52: Read the meaning of it and then complete sentences.

00:16:55: I'm grateful for between brackets a person.

00:16:58: so you mentioned as for example i'm grateful For my dad.

00:17:01: uh i'm greatful for opposition something That she owns.

00:17:03: so i'm Grateful for My car.

00:17:06: third one is i'm Greatful for a play is I'm grateful for my office.

00:17:10: So these are the things.

00:17:12: then you say to the person next to you, I grant your permission to ask me more about one of my share thoughts and than other persons would pick on this read that i listed in.

00:17:21: they will tell me Tell Me More About Your Dad And I Start To Talk About My Dad Got You?

00:17:26: That's The Basic Of The Idea.

00:17:27: Yes Because I Got Two Questions In My Head.

00:17:32: Number One I Forgot To Ask How is the room structured, okay?

00:17:38: Because you're not doing this in a group of twenty right.

00:17:41: You are doing it at table groups.

00:17:44: what's your sweet spot?

00:17:45: and ideal group size to get into those connecting curious conversations?

00:17:52: Well

00:17:55: I do for me odd because I'm the creator of the game, so i feel everything.

00:18:01: So for me a group of six is good...a group of sixty is also good!

00:18:06: It doesn't matter the number because my heart and my spirit are in games..so it just like....it does not matter the numbers of people but if we're doing small groups maybe conversation would be more?

00:18:21: I'd be seated with this table.

00:18:24: But if many groups, like ten groups of people.

00:18:27: Like sixty in a room I would group them into fives or fours and I have the number and quantity of games that can distribute on tables and they can play simultaneously.

00:18:40: Okay so now... How much time do i need to answer this question?

00:18:47: And how you pick who starts?

00:18:50: Volunteer Lee wants first.

00:18:53: Yeah, we before the game that For example Jolene will start first and then move finish in the Hanan And takes a round.

00:19:01: Then when we're done with gratitude We start to roll the dice by turn but it picks other emotions to talk about.

00:19:09: Wonderful.

00:19:10: so tell me the gratitude question.

00:19:11: is that the same for everyone?

00:19:14: You mentioned I do.

00:19:17: afterwards was wondering where that prompt a person sitting next to me and give them permission.

00:19:25: To ask more, right?

00:19:26: Yes

00:19:30: yes so I'm teaching politeness as well.

00:19:31: oh for sure!

00:19:32: For sure all right round one done.

00:19:38: um how long does that take?

00:19:41: i mean i could imagine i mean this is a new way of having a conversation practicing politeness but maybe...I mean this might get very personal with Question one and two, right?

00:19:54: So how long does it take for a table group to go round the table.

00:19:59: A group of five would take like forty-five minutes

00:20:03: with just one question but for the

00:20:05: full game.

00:20:05: No no!

00:20:05: For that entire game.

00:20:06: Yes And this first round what is your experience?

00:20:11: So it's... Forty-five minutes for playing with five people?

00:20:16: Yes.

00:20:16: If you're six, then its gonna take a bit more like fifty to fifty-five.

00:20:27: I just, with my experience.

00:20:28: this is how i see things are going on.

00:20:32: But we need to like everybody would like if they're coming for the slot to play game an hour and a half.

00:20:38: so it's within an hour-and-a-half.

00:20:41: We group them.

00:20:42: They said that we played for forty five minutes.

00:20:44: We reflect after the game.

00:20:46: So you have kind of steps After the game That we can follow through.

00:20:50: Wonderful!

00:20:51: And do time box?

00:20:55: timekeeping or do you use timers?

00:21:00: I usually don't.

00:21:02: But if This lot is for like an hour.

00:21:10: For the game, then people would know that you have we haven't our to play the game within this hours or finish up your turn?

00:21:16: So that's it.

00:21:17: if people are taking the games four retreats and they're saying what do you have?

00:21:22: one hour and a half played as you like in just fear.

00:21:24: They know their rules how they play the Game And then You Just Can Leave Them.

00:21:28: And Then Afterwards We Group them As Like A Circle And We Reflect.

00:21:33: We Have Couple Of Questions To Reflect On The Game.

00:21:38: I have just one game that takes a long time, which is like it's called Evolve.

00:21:43: And because you're evolving through it?

00:21:45: It takes more than an hour and has four players only longer times.

00:21:51: so some games the average of forty to forty five minutes

00:21:55: Alright!

00:21:55: So I see Monish nodding same for Cloud Four.

00:22:00: Is it similar?

00:22:02: Actually Cloud Four It's a lot about, you know being present to what's alive in the other person.

00:22:08: And You don't want to hurry them up on answering your question and they really wanna like I when i try To play this game.

00:22:16: there is thing in non-violent communication where we have to think of as We say that I'm complete.

00:22:22: so we also propose them That we do not want to time box you take Your Time make sure you feel Complete for the next person, if they are feeding complete and the way that game also works is.

00:22:40: you have this thing called as sunshine tokens.

00:22:42: So even the beauty of cloud four is You can observe people's body language and their tone And If you relate with your emotion and what they're sharing?

00:22:52: You Can give them a Sunshine token which like A non-verbal Way Of Sharing how much you really connect With What They Have Just Said.

00:23:00: Sometimes, you know empathy is a lot about also being silent like Silent Empathy's also thing and this where the game really connects people together.

00:23:08: So that way again we don't time box it necessarily to one art And I've been in games which have found even for at least two or three hours because It depends on people availability as well and completing A lot of different emotions.

00:23:24: Multiple rounds Again patient number Increases in time if we have let's say more people because then everybody gets to complete one round each six or seven People will take much longer than yes, maybe three two four.

00:23:37: Yes Oh for sure.

00:23:38: I mean now listening to both of you I have like Two emotions right?

00:23:42: Like that one and I understand okay This is gonna slow us down.

00:23:45: We're going to have a meaningful conversation.

00:23:47: We're Gonna listen when it be polite.

00:23:50: but then on the other hand You know from me If you speak if you if your given that permission Invitation then it might just you know open up people and so that they can finally connect right?

00:24:02: And share what's really important to them, how did he felt.

00:24:07: What is now different for him?

00:24:09: again here someone listening in it.

00:24:11: so its wow walk us through the next rounds.

00:24:15: I mean G gratitude.

00:24:21: let's take that off Maybe a kind of new way of having that conversation.

00:24:28: and now next I'm supposed to roll the dice.

00:24:32: So do you have anything with the tokens or with the pegs after this first round?

00:24:38: Yes, after we finish our first round when you earn... I have here just pulling out a token.

00:24:46: Okay so each one would take the token G and place it on.

00:24:50: Um, a placement.

00:24:51: I don't have it right next to me that you place it down on a slip but yeah finishing the game is like finishing the letters though and finishing glucose.

00:25:00: So every time you share you get into token.

00:25:02: okay after we're all shared Uh gratitude then we the frit neck.

00:25:07: The next player will draw the dice and whatever comes in lands the dice On for example if it landed on an s serenity.

00:25:14: so i'm gonna pick the card For serenities check the meaning of serenity, then go for complete the sentences for serenities.

00:25:21: And that is sheer what I said about the same thing...I mean i complete three different sentences.

00:25:27: uh..i feel serene with this person.

00:25:29: ,i-i feels serene at this place.

00:25:31: .i think whatever the sentences are and i say the same things to the person next to me.

00:25:36: ...and give you a pr- i grant your permission And they would pick on, tell me more about the place that I mentioned.

00:25:46: Oh!

00:25:46: Okay.

00:25:47: and then...I would earn letter S, the token?

00:25:51: And slide.

00:25:53: this is a letter s..and then i slide down On the board.

00:25:57: This slide That's the Serenity Slide And when you're going Down The Slide People Would Be Clapping or Celebrating Whatever They Want to Celebrate.

00:26:08: I have number one, can you give us some examples of the cards?

00:26:12: So you mentioned that they're like completing sentences.

00:26:15: Is is that the structure Of all of the cars?

00:26:19: yes Yes um i have seven meanings for gratitude and love understanding optimism serenity excitement.

00:26:29: these are The Seven Courts.

00:26:30: These Are The Meaning Like They Read A Definition And I Created The Definition Myself my experience in life, not from online things.

00:26:41: And there's the seven other letters that have this statement.

00:26:47: so you have gratitude statements.

00:26:49: like we complete sentences for gratitude.

00:26:52: You have love and understood.

00:26:54: So these are the sentences.

00:26:56: on one side which is complete

00:26:58: I've

00:26:59: got two decks One meaning and one statement.

00:27:07: Right, we get to read the meaning how often

00:27:13: Like for gratitude because it's the first round one person can read It.

00:27:17: and then randomly when we're playing with a dice, When I land on S. I read this Renity One Island on an L i read The love what I learned.

00:27:24: so anytime you lend us something just Read Yes the meaning word So that people are aligned to unlike process inside of them That following statements that they gonna share.

00:27:36: Alright.

00:27:41: My second question was about, I mean sitting in the circle having this thoughtful conversation.

00:27:52: About oneself right?

00:27:57: What about opting out and safety?

00:28:01: how does the table deal with that if i'm really touched by a card you don't feel like sharing but it's still very meaningful to me.

00:28:10: What do I do?

00:28:11: In the game, right.

00:28:12: I mean in the game mechanics and is there a planned safety net for that?

00:28:17: or...?

00:28:18: Okay...I always have a manual for the game And then you'll get to skip if you don't want.

00:28:23: this year if you have the right to do that.

00:28:26: And as well, as Mohanesh mentioned before there is a pledge we do for playing this game.

00:28:31: The Pledge gives more safety and it's an invitation to share.

00:28:36: but whatever happens in Las Vegas stays in Las vegas.

00:28:41: so what ever happen during the game stays at the game.

00:28:43: So I create these kind of safe environments where people who are hesitant to share they just open up resident in the first round, maybe hearing other people.

00:28:55: then they got like encouraged to share.

00:28:59: Okay so I can also skip only the second part right there turning to my neighbor giving them permission or i could choose Opposite of me, instead... It's

00:29:11: creator.

00:29:12: If you decide as a group that can pick on it is fine.

00:29:15: So I have like little thing.

00:29:16: people change in the game if they want to have different way but its not affecting impact itself Like picking any person who would ask more?

00:29:27: That' fine.

00:29:28: Okay gotcha!

00:29:30: With both games.

00:29:31: question for all of u. i understand mechanics.

00:29:34: we roll and get token.

00:29:40: After forty-five minutes, I might not have had the chance to answer all seven right?

00:29:47: Sure.

00:29:49: Well what happens then?

00:29:51: is that a moment where you just pack it up and ask them to finish their last round?

00:29:56: or how do... because again i'm just assuming now this isn't about winning or completing something Right!

00:30:02: It's about connection and curiosity in listening moments.

00:30:06: but if Left out because they only have four out of

00:30:11: that's why if we're in a big group I always choose to have four people in one table so that everybody gets the chance and talk.

00:30:20: And if we are done because of time slot, then they've understood about themselves as well!

00:30:29: So i never felt somebody is leaving the game feeling unheard or didn't say something about them.

00:30:40: I moderated so many events.

00:30:46: Um, I've never witnessed that for somebody coming out of the game feeling...I didn't speak!

00:30:53: I didn't talk.

00:30:55: Okay?

00:30:55: So that's a thing.

00:30:58: I think experience with Cloud Four would be a bit different because it's exposing so much.

00:31:04: uh

00:31:05: people will be hesitant not to share their emotions if Especially some of like English people who would not share emotions, mainly Europeans.

00:31:16: They are kind of keeping their emotions.

00:31:19: they're not from the Middle East Like myself or always expressing emotions.

00:31:26: So it depends which group you play with.

00:31:30: I mean Moanish plays with international people.

00:31:33: so he can share about interaction with international Cloud for it needs to be like, you know your audience well.

00:31:43: You know the people are gonna play so that they're not offended.

00:31:46: They aren't feeling like they revealed something and didn't want to reveal because everyone was playing.

00:31:56: It's really important to understand their clients In big events.

00:32:01: I don't go for cloud four.

00:32:03: I go for sucrose, glucose fructose those fun things that nobody would be like revealing really emotions about it.

00:32:10: So Moan is what you say something about club four.

00:32:13: how?

00:32:13: How Is It

00:32:14: For You?

00:32:15: so you know for me i think when whenever i've played people clout forward with People in Europe What i try to do In general is i tried create some awareness About the importance of active listening itself Because sometimes people are not maybe even aware about what active listening might actually be like.

00:32:34: And it's a very beautiful saying, the most beautiful gift you can give to somebody is your presence.

00:32:41: So I try to encourage people.

00:32:44: just being mindful of how someone says and you're intently listening to them.

00:32:52: It could mean that through body reaction One of the roles in these games is.

00:32:59: I also get to sometimes, you know call out some things in a very subtle way which i like or appreciate about somebody's answer.

00:33:08: And I also as the moderator play with people and give them positive emotions.

00:33:14: if there are sunshine token where they relate what they say into game then people pick up on those cues that you can encourage.

00:33:25: you know, in these non-verbal ways also show how much you care about what they have said and how much it means to you.

00:33:31: And the beauty of the game evolves in such a way that as humans we connect with human values and human emotions like confusion or anxiety or admiration for even optimism more empathy .And That's The Beauty Of These Actual Cards.

00:33:45: It's Like Just A Card With Like.

00:33:47: This Is The Word Confusion.

00:33:48: You Know.

00:33:49: I just Have To Use One Of The Dices Which Says Let'S Say I Got Aware aware and confusion.

00:33:54: So maybe my question would be, you know where do feel most confused in life currently?

00:33:59: In the times of AI?

00:34:02: so this could be a question which comes up so spontaneously.

00:34:04: it feels so much more authentic.

00:34:07: It just makes people really to think on the spot And that's very rarely opens our people because sometimes we are always in this rush Of getting things done where you actually slow down and have a very thoughtful conversation.

00:34:26: And I think, I try to bring up the importance of pauses like digest what somebody's trying to say and then reflect on it.

00:34:36: Somebody might even... Very spontaneously they ask follow-up questions because this is curious.

00:34:42: that's how game allows for more just natural human dialogue.

00:34:51: Yes, wonderful.

00:34:53: Well thanks for explaining this and putting words to us.

00:34:56: you know container pause in this container too listen to open up the share and then two yeah also search for an answer.

00:35:08: just one last thing I realized.

00:35:11: even not many people have realize that holding a space is actually very conscious And if you do this with intention, it shows how much you care because you're really letting the person complete before You know your moving on.

00:35:28: The next person

00:35:30: Sure for sure.

00:35:31: um actually These two questions that I have right.

00:35:34: so one i want to plus What what you said in terms of?

00:35:42: You know pausing Holding the space again a good you know, question is a good opener anyway.

00:35:50: I love to say in one keynote i said play is the portal to presence right.

00:35:59: so also being in that container and a playful encounter um at a playful moment and again knowing that we voluntarily are there uh-huh is, I think already a mini commitment to wanting to be present and we're inviting more presence.

00:36:23: And for both of you right like facilitating your room with again six or sixty people where we invite two open up complete sentences talk about emotions over to just share personal stories that are meaningful In that moment to search and but also, too understand.

00:36:47: Okay?

00:36:47: What am I willing to share knowing That maybe it's totally different on a conference because they don't know the people i'm sitting with?

00:36:54: It might be different you know if uh If i'm with my team Or or not right?

00:36:59: um how do You guys as facilitators hold this space?

00:37:05: i mean This is always like sometimes a very vague concept of holding the space, of practicing the own presence.

00:37:14: And as you've mentioned, Bhuvanish through that enabling and encouraging others to hold this base time pauses not to breath but The energy the awareness the presents.

00:37:33: for I would say right now just a little bit longer for something to emerge.

00:37:40: What is your take on?

00:37:42: how do you do it as a facilitator and why is it so beneficial?

00:37:51: I can start by saying that um i'm not selling the games in the market.

00:37:57: I'm just preferring that whoever holds the games or playing with a game are certified game moderators.

00:38:04: I train people, i give them certificate to play and in this certificate we are trained how to hold the space?

00:38:11: How to listen because most of the game moderates are coaches.

00:38:14: so from the coaching background uh... We have the statement of Give you- Give The Gift Of Silence To Your Client Which Is Giving Them Space To Talk And Share.

00:38:25: We just observe.

00:38:28: So a lot of trying to holding the space for humanity, to share who they are it was... For me It wasn't like business to sell games and I think it's very important to train people how talk with them about how to hold speed and facilitate their game.

00:38:51: Maybe its not good business plan?

00:38:53: I'm not sure.

00:38:55: But for me, I felt this is important so that people can sense the people who they are.

00:39:02: I get connected with everyone or every game moderator and teach about my games.

00:39:07: There's a personal connection... ...I have around one hundred game moderators all over the world And we meet in person like I did with Moniz.

00:39:19: They come to Cairo for training.. ..and go to different places.

00:39:24: So this is where I'm sure that most of the game moderators would be holding the space for them.

00:39:32: This from my side, I guess Mona's took training and there are skills that I teach.

00:39:39: how a moderator has these kind of skills, a moderator have qualities...I talk about concept of compassion.

00:39:47: throughout their training.

00:39:49: not only am preparing to play games but who?

00:39:52: you're as person as a facilitator and I'm Gimodrate.

00:39:56: So this is from my part, Moniz Wichibh form his port.

00:40:01: how do you hold space Moniz?

00:40:04: You know like when i had the chance to introduce these games to people uh...I kind of also encourage them use those non-verbal communication cues Like This Is For Complete Again And if want to celebrate it just move your hands like these.

00:40:18: um..and These are things that through attending nonviolent communication intensive trainings, like these were nine-day intensive trainings residential and I got to see really from you know facilitators and certified Nonviolent Communication Trainers out there what they really did.

00:40:39: And for them holding a space was just even as simple as not interrupting What somebody might be saying?

00:40:50: put yourself in that person's shoes.

00:40:54: I know it sounds very obvious.

00:40:56: at the same time, what beautiful about is just everybody has given a chance to speak and i realize while also being a moderator sometimes play in game so people can see me as part of this player And this is a lot of, you know how even sometimes people they kind of okay if they see you behave in a certain way and like it.

00:41:29: They try to see what would also want do something similar.

00:41:31: but that's all on the fly spontaneous when I just encourage people think about being actively listening because i had one experience while playing the game cloud four where somebody was distracted Because of that.

00:41:46: It impacted other people In The Game more openly.

00:41:52: And it made me realize all the more as a moderator, I have to be very actively involved and try to give them one of examples of imagine you were playing this with your team?

00:42:03: How much would they appreciate on how intently you will listen to them or even respond to what they

00:42:09: say?".

00:42:10: All the more natural for them start behaving in similar way... Yeah!

00:42:17: I don't think there's a lot of lingo while also sometimes being a player in the game and people pick up that way.

00:42:25: And yeah, I think i would just end by saying one last thing is uh... A little bit of nudge on what these things could mean to somebody else?

00:42:35: That goes a long way!

00:42:37: I give them some sort of heads-up.

00:42:40: this should mean a lot for every participant if you're actively listening to the person somewhere it's mentioned partly in the pledge we actively listen.

00:42:50: So that kind of really brings in the meaning even as part of how the game is structured and it's very thoughtful of Anand, or how she has put that into the game structure.

00:43:01: Yes and I was just thinking...I mean It's not a poster on-the-wall over company building right?

00:43:12: Like hey we listen to each other an act of listening is important to us And we're great team!

00:43:17: Its' really this As you mentioned this intentionally using for a lack of better word, right?

00:43:27: But intentionally actively listening to... It's not helping but to allow it make space.

00:43:41: That is not even holding the effort creating this base where I and then in course The game about connection Right and conversations and curiosity Where these values,

00:43:56: again

00:43:57: lack of a better word can come together right in their unique way and their time and their energy.

00:44:05: And there moment when it's right you know.

00:44:08: so for me this is um sometimes It's hard to explain because holding the space for different topics and groups and games or conversations and decisions So...it's like a fingerprint!

00:44:26: Roop into every moment that we're in space and time, right?

00:44:30: Wow.

00:44:31: You

00:44:34: know it's also reflecting on what they say.

00:44:38: like some sometimes people say empathy is not about saying I understand And It's about them feeling because you can only try to understand What somebody might be going through.

00:44:49: you could never really being that person shows i mean its subtle.

00:44:52: Sometimes this thing About Empathy And you also sometimes say that intently, but I can only try to imagine what you may have felt because I wasn't exactly in your place.

00:45:04: Yes and just adding to that... You go first.

00:45:10: I remember something really important that I emphasized on my training with the game of Drators is we had this kind of emotional contagion like if they are emotionally high, the table is high and they're excited.

00:45:26: If someone in a table has low energy depleted sharing really hard story or tough experience that went through then other players will go down with them.

00:45:39: This role of the moderator who comes uplifts to understand what's going on And push them so it can do something about together.

00:45:51: This is where I always insisted that i need gay moderators to be more understanding humanity, understanding a more coaching background or non-violence communication so that they give this kind of space holding safe space and whatever happens out of people experiences.

00:46:10: They can like hold them again.

00:46:12: embrace where I was playing Cloud Four in a big event like two, three years back.

00:46:23: A lot of tables with cloud four and cloud for your rolling the dice.

00:46:26: you have four different zones of emotions?

00:46:29: You had positive emotions that we have when you are drained.

00:46:34: so going through different emotions people would go like it will find tables high and this is really the sunshine tokens which come and cut down their people who were going to tough experience while they're sharing their emotion.

00:46:48: So one time, a couple of people in this event they cried out out of what they shared.

00:46:56: And I went to the table and i took The Lady, and I told her that's gone was your face...and I moderated in a way That..I gave Her like a gift right away In front Of everybody because you're sharing.

00:47:08: so You need as a moderator if it is A big event ,you Need Like a trainer .You hold their training room So you keep Your eyes on different kinds of tables and different Kinds of emotions going along around ..And you are holding everyone.

00:47:23: So it's like, this is why I'm not doing the CloudTorrent big events because of random abrupt-up emotion if it happens.

00:47:32: Because not everyone in the habit expressing their emotions.

00:47:39: so some people would never say anything to anyone during a game.

00:47:43: they are excluded away from them.

00:47:45: This where i keep on big events like glucose accrues and those kind fun positive emotions.

00:47:52: And of course, we also need to say that expressing emotion.

00:47:59: Also looks different for each and every one of us right?

00:48:04: So yes it might be yeah someone crying but it might also be someone getting really quiet.

00:48:08: Right It might be somebody getting really loud.

00:48:11: Yeah I'm excited.

00:48:12: and then For others just you know looking inwards and for others looking outwards.

00:48:19: so And this is really down to the question about, you know how do you wrap it up and what do you reflect afterwards?

00:48:28: Because I could imagine that some players are a little bit stirred-up afterwards.

00:48:35: Maybe there's more than one needs to be expressed or shared.

00:48:41: maybe especially when you're talking larger groups...I didn't get to speak to everyone!

00:48:47: And also share with other tables.

00:48:49: so How Do You...?

00:48:51: Wrap it up.

00:48:52: Let's say, you know time box is over for whatever.

00:48:54: that means Everyone had the at least chance or invitation to share.

00:49:01: they're all okay with The state of the conversation and this date of the curiosity That had happened.

00:49:09: How do you wrap it up?

00:49:11: And I'm specifically asking more interested in What are things that they now find out beyond the individual stories that were shared, right?

00:49:25: What did they reflect upon.

00:49:26: and you also mentioned there is a time pocket for reflection in this circle.

00:49:33: Can you share how

00:49:34: it works After we're done, like if you are having a lot of tables playing and everybody say that they were done then either I hold the mic to ask people reflective questions.

00:49:46: What was interesting for your game?

00:49:48: How did it impact on them?

00:49:51: Just feedback about what happened with their games... I would always find this very common feedback coming over-and-over in the team bonding events.

00:50:02: that i do is when they said although i know this person for five years And we work together for three years.

00:50:08: Today, I know this person in a different way and at deeper level.

00:50:15: so it's always common that I hear it because an hour of real conversation would get you like lot quality life experiences with no other perspective on people.

00:50:34: There was like somebody who's training, dancing.

00:50:37: They didn't know that he trained dance.

00:50:40: Another person loves carpentering and does design things.

00:50:43: I mean oh you do this!

00:50:45: You do that.

00:50:46: so it is really nice to notice out of the scope even in a company performance level.

00:50:53: So when we talk about your children or any achievement then people would see you and celebrate in a different way.

00:51:05: Then the total communication later, it'd be like on a different wiser way of understanding other person.

00:51:15: This is where we end just holding the mic asking people or We do a circle called Compassionate Conversation Circle Where I get everybody out to their tables bring our chairs And sit And then we can like, more give a lot of feedback conversation about what was the most important emotion for you that you found yourself answering?

00:51:40: moral.

00:51:41: What was it?

00:51:41: Like he wanted to increase in your life or which emotion?

00:51:46: have seven emotions and want to increase more over have more often so we talk more deeper question than than the feedback.

00:51:54: uh you would be amazed to see people understanding, oh I forgot about that.

00:52:00: That i have a lot of good things in my life and today I remembered so many good things!

00:52:04: I mean glucose.

00:52:05: does this impact?

00:52:06: um there's two beautiful people in my live.

00:52:09: they're so blessings in my lives.

00:52:11: So People Would Understand That Oh There Is Life is Good And They Are Boosted In The Word.

00:52:18: Guccos Is Accomplished Giving Them the Boost Of Gucco.

00:52:23: Then This is how we end.

00:52:28: If I have a big time or longer timeslot, maybe there's some worksheet that they can reflect on... There are certain emotions about the game.

00:52:40: So it's like a handwritten reflection sheet that they can do.

00:52:44: I also create some artifacts, like posters that you can hold and have picture with it.

00:52:49: so then Like I am thankful!

00:52:52: I'm

00:52:52: optimistic!!

00:52:53: It gives up another level of boosts of energetic boost.

00:52:57: They keep their pictures of it... They post them online.. They share those people... Another level of happiness following even after the game is over.

00:53:07: How wonderful I just remembered.

00:53:10: Oh, you may have to look this up.

00:53:12: This is a thing when one study right that says it Is um Heart of the evolution and we'll look it up and see if there's claim holes huh?

00:53:21: That we do remember The unpleasant experiences more because that way We don't want to do that again Right.

00:53:30: And then we forget.

00:53:31: so It's like the unpleasant ones was like Velcro You know just sticking.

00:53:36: And then the pleasant ones, you know there was nothing that could harm

00:53:40: us.

00:53:41: Yeah it's like this anti-slip pan right?

00:53:43: Just like this Teflon coating That we just tend to forget that and slips away.

00:53:49: because yeah again I think Nothing too to harm us There We can safely go into that space Again.

00:53:56: Wow okay so the large compassion conversation circle They write things down.

00:54:06: What else?

00:54:07: I mean, how do you... or what else.

00:54:09: The question is really more about other things especially when individuals but also with organizations.

00:54:17: Is there any way that you encourage them to translate what they have experienced into functional behavior in their day-to-day?

00:54:32: Well, if I meet anybody by coincidence in any other events or they would say you know the time when we played this game it made me a different person.

00:54:43: It made I have a lot in life to do.

00:54:49: Other games like Sook Rose, you're celebrating your achievements.

00:54:52: so after sharing with other people on my team about my celebration and good moments of life People would see me differently If they send feedback.

00:55:05: They'd say this game really helped understand myself better.

00:55:09: This game helps let others see it.

00:55:15: don't follow through with people's behavior along the way.

00:55:17: I would just get random messages or whenever i see people there which hear what happened as a behaviour, an impact afterwards.

00:55:29: I'm wondering you know Monish Sunshine Tokens?

00:55:33: Would also work in day-to-day right?

00:55:35: it is not that they are limited to game

00:55:40: very much like sorry maybe talk about much about what is the concept behind Sunshine Tokens.

00:55:46: So fundamentally, the idea is whenever when somebody's sharing and answering somebodies questions with regards to emotion in The Cloud for Game And if answer like something that makes them feel high or mostly low rather you kind of sense this person feeling sentimental.

00:56:08: it might be a little bit hurtful and that's where like a sunshine token comes in, okay you have hope here or you're not alone.

00:56:20: A Sunshine Token could be as simple as You are Not Alone.

00:56:23: it is just three of four words but somebody saying this to me would mean a lot for the person because it comes so beautifully that really connects with their answer.

00:56:38: at point they were answering these questions They feel its coming from universe.

00:56:44: Yes.

00:56:44: Can you

00:56:45: tell me what I do in this game for my intention that one of my friends was passing through a very tough time?

00:56:52: So, i created positive statements for her and when I was doing it...I Was doing it for the game And as if I'm talking to My friend who is passing Through A Very Tough Time.

00:57:04: so every small statement In The Sunshine token Is uplifting in a way.

00:57:09: So there are like twenty-five in the gate, twenty five Santan tokens.

00:57:13: If you can read a couple of them after I just want to finish this.

00:57:18: so my intention was that if i'm sharing my emotions and am feeling down while im sharing it because Im remembering like hard time when ive went through And Mahneesh is the person then hearing seeing physical body & emotions going on he would say like Hanan I would love to give you a one sunshine token.

00:57:42: Have the intention, he will tell me have the intention that this whatever statement's gonna come to you it'll help you to uplift this kind of emotion that your going through.

00:57:53: so with the intension of uplifting thats really important.

00:57:57: and they pick random with their intentions.

00:58:00: So i always tell the player bring to ur attention the intention for yourself the card that would resonate more with this particular emotion.

00:58:11: And every time, every player will pick one.

00:58:14: it is a magic... magically works with the status or of their emotions at that particular time.

00:58:19: so that's where the intention going from.

00:58:22: I mean It's very important.

00:58:24: they have the intentions to pick for themselves whatever is good for them themselves experiencing these emotions.

00:58:33: Yes, please.

00:58:34: I was just about to say this is a nice priming also right?

00:58:37: To what you listen for?

00:58:38: yeah.

00:58:39: Munish Yeah

00:58:41: Just like three or four examples of what the sunshine token actually reads.

00:58:45: some of them and just quickly read them out.

00:58:47: one Of them says i can deal with it And imagine You giving it somebody else and It was in The way.

00:58:53: give it to them Is if you don't see What are you giving to them your?

00:58:56: you're Giving it to Them With the flip side reveals in such a beautiful way that it gives them just the answer they want to hear.

00:59:05: So I can deal with is like an affirmation, you know?

00:59:08: Like yes!

00:59:08: You will be able... It's just a positive reinforcement that we are not alone.

00:59:14: and another example of a SunSign tokenist-I Can Make It Through or I Can Move On Or I Will Overcome.

00:59:23: so these as Hanan said They Are Literally Positive Uplifting Words And sometimes, you know your words can mean a lot even when it comes in the non-population.

00:59:32: Coming at the right time yes exactly

00:59:34: yeah

00:59:34: just Yeah.

00:59:36: and again that's where you feel the universe coming through because nobody is seeing The word before they give the token.

00:59:42: Yes

00:59:42: That's what this all.

00:59:45: Okay Wow so You um yeah?

00:59:47: He passed on the token and then yeah It reveals itself to the player who has received it.

00:59:54: lovely Is there anything else that, and I think you only mentioned shortly.

01:00:02: You're not starting the session with a lecture about positive emotions right?

01:00:06: But of course your framing it so that it connects to group into time box in the audience.

01:00:12: then workshop goals or session goals is here.

01:00:14: Anything else?

01:00:17: players would need know afterwards that connects well after, again going through this experience.

01:00:34: I guess i give a little talk as you said explaining what are positive emotions how they impact us if in training i would like say about Barbara Fredrickson and stuff.

01:00:49: but just general play time just positive emotion, how impactful positive emotions.

01:00:54: and glucose is like acronym for gratitude love anyway.

01:00:58: I would go and explain the game How it's played?

01:01:02: And i will do have a powerpoint presentation.

01:01:05: Just only The content of the game as simple.

01:01:08: no words...just the game.

01:01:10: These are the tokens This Is The Core this is the and so on.

01:01:15: So make them feel understand.

01:01:18: Every time I explained before They understand like fifty percent or less.

01:01:23: And then they're going through the tables to explain more about their games, so it's not only just before explaining a game but you move around and explain them.

01:01:32: So this is before the preparation, before they're starting to gain after the game.

01:01:37: It's just a feedback and reflection.

01:01:39: in our like pictures having a group picture holding the posters design that it says same color as the game big poster that I am grateful.

01:01:51: i'm confident optimistic.

01:01:52: so these are like ending of having this kind.

01:02:01: Moinish is doing the cloud for a game.

01:02:07: I leave every game moderator to introduce whatever they want before their game, it's up to them.

01:02:12: They can prepare some game.

01:02:19: moderators would plan an entire retreat around one game So they prepared all material.

01:02:27: They talk whatever they want to talk about.

01:02:28: For example, someone is talking like a retreat about confidence so that you prepare their material for confidence and then play a game called Socrose because it's boosting the confidence And having this game as an hour of time You can do anything with it like starting it, ending it preparing for whatever he's doing.

01:03:00: Whatever you want.

01:03:03: Wow!

01:03:03: And what is your favorite way of wrapping up and moving on?

01:03:12: You know one thing that sometimes I have seen where people just connect with this even taking a memory from us playing together.

01:03:22: you know, as they beautifully say a picture speaks a thousand words.

01:03:27: I still remember there was this one situation where at our conference in Europe it was Euroku where had the chance to play these games with complete strangers from different nationalities and thus genuineness of the smile on their face or the glow after playing the game It spoke so much more than anything would ever speak for them.

01:03:50: that really felt alive And luckily, I had a chance to take one of those selfies as a moderator and also player in the game.

01:04:00: So that was one way through which we ended it.

01:04:03: You know what?

01:04:04: Sometimes people have been following up after the game... ...and you just want let them be!

01:04:08: So sometimes people are even curious when games come to an end because they don't allow such days or moments in life such questions which are so deep and emotional, like as you said Julian yourself that we don't talk about these things much.

01:04:30: That's what they miss and probably need more in the days of humans because sometimes it is all about language or verbalizing it.

01:04:41: I think this game gives us a very easy way to put our languages out.

01:04:51: Wonderful, wow.

01:04:52: And then also through that language in terms of also externalizing it right?

01:04:58: It's also hearing me say it so its always different than just hearin' me thinkin'.

01:05:06: Wow cool!

01:05:09: I'm just looking at my final questions here already to see any other variation...I think you mentioned a lot large groups small groups strangers conferences retreats Different also topics that, of course emotions can connect to and the width and wisdom a hundred game facilitators are connecting it there.

01:05:34: Audiences and preferences on topics.

01:05:37: any variation you think would be interesting.

01:05:39: dimension now I'm not really daring ask but he played us online.

01:05:44: have we done this in zoom call?

01:05:48: It's probably totally different feeling.

01:05:50: Some people, I don't like to do it but actually train two people online by training for one of them is Mojanesh because we met in person and talked.

01:06:02: He couldn't come to Cairo, and I sent him all the games to Berlin.

01:06:06: And then he was able to open them and understand them.

01:06:10: Then we had this kind of two days off training online.

01:06:15: It happened only with two people—one in the US one in Berlin!

01:06:22: The idea is having game moderators and having their own way of presenting materials, doing things.

01:06:34: And using my games as part to enrich the programs.

01:06:38: that is something helping a lot people but People like therapists or coaches, they can use it one-to-one.

01:06:48: At that particular activity the coach and therapist are not playing themselves They're just giving their role to dice and cards for clients in order to help them talk.

01:07:00: So there is a modality I created called game based coaching modality That you could use games on your own which is beautiful.

01:07:11: A lot of people would also ask me, can we play it with our kids?

01:07:14: And I get a lot of from on this side as well like they played with their internationally.

01:07:19: again one from Sweden texting me Can you have the game said?

01:07:22: i'm not selling the game.

01:07:23: just only sell that training and You can then buy whatever you want.

01:07:27: because I want to make sure Of the quality of People love The way They are listening That We're Holding Space But We Are Not Judging because I do have level of different depths of games.

01:07:41: What i'm sharing for today, it's like a very simple um shareings but where the one Monish is uh introducing to us our sharing his experience with us is a bit deeper.

01:07:57: so...so..I wanted people to understand ...the level of every game Yes, and what I really would give like an idea and tips for this game.

01:08:09: take care of this And for this gain be careful if this happens.

01:08:13: so Game moderation up to now.

01:08:15: Like I've been in the market four is three two four coming to me.

01:08:19: three and a half years.

01:08:21: um i'm still In the side of not selling the games to the public but maybe one day, I'm not sure to sell it to the public.

01:08:32: So i'm open for gay moderation in Berlin or any part of Germany... we can create a group with whoever wants to be moderators and Moniz could help me there!

01:08:44: or just open for that.

01:08:46: That sounds wonderful, we'll keep everyone... And again I make sure in the show notes you will find Hanan and Zemone's LinkedIn profile.

01:08:55: of course he can always contact me if need contacts or upcoming dates.

01:09:00: but here is one thing and Hanan..I do ask game creators how to ensure quality right?

01:09:13: any game, right?

01:09:15: Even if it's off the shelf.

01:09:16: even If It is publicly available or open source understanding The depth that it can and might have in maybe invitation Maybe through how you frame it How to open this space.

01:09:38: There are multiple ways of introducing it and inviting your players being aware what impact that might have on the debt and also be other way around, right?

01:09:50: I mean it's not that our participants come in neutral.

01:09:54: They might have a specific emotional state they're already in when we are talking about organizations or maybe even excitement at conferences Or just any topic of retreat session would be embedded.

01:10:12: So also being aware of that and then tailoring it, making intentional decisions about what to say.

01:10:22: What not to do is really important even sometimes for those tiny games who feel like yes but we were only building a product together with Lego.

01:10:35: yeah well they can stir up people somewhat stable working relationship.

01:10:42: And now it's

01:10:42: different.".

01:10:44: So yes, great!

01:10:46: Wow guys I'm just looking at the time and there are fifteen other games that we should not tackle.

01:10:55: but here is my final question.

01:10:59: so what does your ultimate facilitation tip?

01:11:04: It doesn't have to be only for cloud four or glucose.

01:11:09: It could just be generally the one thing that you would want our listeners to be more aware of after hearing this.

01:11:20: Like a facilitator tip, it's like being playful and human at the same time Because play would always connect people on the level of children was like very, there's no ego.

01:11:36: There is nothing... No hierarchy we're just playing!

01:11:40: So it connected to inner child and bonding us in a human life.

01:11:47: Authenticity as well being playful authentic into humans.

01:11:52: Thanks

01:11:56: For me.

01:11:57: somewhere you know I originally come from India and you know, I realized somethings the hard way.

01:12:05: And i think it's for my betterment that when your connecting with people in diverse backgrounds its important to again value what they value.

01:12:16: do it very genuinely.

01:12:18: there is a saying When You Are In Rome Be Like A Roman.

01:12:24: It Doesn't Mean That You Don't Be Yourself.

01:12:25: You Also Value What The Other Person Values.

01:12:28: So if I have to give like maybe just one tip, it's hard to exactly put in one word.

01:12:33: But I would put around on particular world.

01:12:35: the word is awareness and when i say the word awareness ,I learned this throughout my journey so far be culturally aware Be relationally aware Be self-aware And also be mutually aware.

01:12:51: .So I will say awareness across these four different areas at least Because that's how you kind of connect with people based on the relationship and what it might mean to them, based upon their value in their culture.

01:13:05: Based on yourself, your self-awareness... And mutual!

01:13:08: It is always between YOU and the other person.

01:13:10: so hold each other in terms of what each are values.

01:13:15: So bringing all these into awareness brings in your respect for a person or more as well.

01:13:24: They will see it.

01:13:26: Thank You Thank you.

01:13:30: Here's my final question, is there anything else that you want to share?

01:13:34: That we have not talked about or that we've touched but then haven't finished... We covered so much!

01:13:44: If I can reflect on the difference between two games that were introduced both are emotions But glucose is all based on positive emotions, the focusing on creating this kind of boosting energy.

01:14:00: Cloud four is about experiencing zones and levels in energies of emotions.

01:14:07: Cloud for you generate that question yourself as a player.

01:14:12: so your pick into whatever questions are at level awareness or you can create these kinds glucose, we have complete sentences like it's its sentences that you complete by sharing ideas about.

01:14:31: So one is your create the player creates an invent and do some questions The other when You Have Simple Statements That You Complete.

01:14:43: so these are Like Different Kinds of Dynamics.

01:14:46: Regarding Talking Conversation You can do it this way, simple way but still you're gonna have a lot of deep connection and conversation.

01:14:55: And you can do by making the player is the one creating the question.

01:15:01: so like spectrum games that has different levels of conversational ideas.

01:15:07: yet

01:15:09: Thanks Wow.

01:15:13: Thank you too for sharing your wisdom and how the games come together, what they can spark in a room of again strangers

01:15:26: or

01:15:27: teams that have been working together.

01:15:29: And individuals who've worked with each other years if not decades.

01:15:35: Thank you so much!

01:15:37: Thank you, thank you for having us.

01:15:39: And we're just like going from one game to another area and yeah... We were supposed focus on one game but with a mix of both is good!

01:15:48: Can I call out something?

01:15:50: Of course Monish!

01:15:51: Thank you Julian.

01:15:52: This also trying to answer your question about the last thing….

01:15:58: I would want to mention even what you are doing.

01:16:01: currently there is an upcoming event called Serious Games for Serious Change on July, on September fifth.

01:16:08: I think it's also creating more awareness for people that games can really bond people and games can also be a element of change.

01:16:19: so what you're doing towards that Julianist?

01:16:21: Also something i would say its calling out the people should come see themselves then decide whether or not they want to bring into their lives.

01:16:30: You know, like I'm also seeing this from personal experience and Julian because he spoke about organizations.

01:16:36: Have been observing people in organizations are so work oriented that they don't have to remove time for these things where actually you should celebrate certain things in life?

01:16:47: And I remember back in one of my companies They had the thing called a stand down.

01:16:53: So how do we have startups when you share updates or how your day went?

01:16:56: Or sorry what is going on today?

01:16:58: Like progress update A stand-down used to happen every two weeks, like just half an hour or one hour together.

01:17:05: The whole team gets together and they talk about stuff informally And sometimes even in that one hour we kind of try to play a one on two games online probably connected at the very natural level as informally.

01:17:20: I would end with saying these things About Games In General because it's applicable.

01:17:25: today is times i was reading a book on uncertainty And this is a book by the Harvard Business Review on Uncertainty and because you're living in uncertain times.

01:17:35: Very beautifully, In one of the chapters by this person called Arius de Geis The Book Chapter about Planning as Learning They say that games could significantly accelerate institutional learning.

01:17:52: Organizations are institutions and games can accelerate institutional learning.

01:17:59: Now, why do you want to accelerate learning?

01:18:00: Because that's how you can show how fast we can adapt and learn and be better than competitors.

01:18:05: So think about it That even Games can be a catalyst To really allow people to open up.

01:18:12: And the more you bond with somebody informally The more they know what makes them tick.

01:18:18: And then there is no way of being a better team because each other stands better.

01:18:24: So that was one thing which Jolly stopped with me when I read this in the book about uncertainty and like having a cup

01:18:29: of tea.

01:18:30: And, I would end up as person called Randy Pausch.

01:18:35: He is no more unfortunately but he has written very beautiful... Like you give last lecture used to work at Disney some point yet cancer..and said never underestimate power for fun The importance on having fun.

01:18:53: I'm going to keep having fun for every day because there's no other way to play it.

01:18:58: So, you know that element of fun or enthusiasm is something which can bring more energy Because you feel more light-hearted when they're taking work as a play and in the right sense not out in the wrong sense.

01:19:10: so It's not just waste of time.

01:19:13: games can really change people's lives for the better

01:19:18: For sure.

01:19:19: Monish, thank you so much and absolutely.

01:19:22: You know I'm gonna put those quotes in links to the books that you mentioned...I am happy to put them into show notes!

01:19:31: So our listeners can now not only re-listen this episode but also go onto the show notes click through learn about more Barbara Fredrickson's work everything we've mentioned.

01:19:44: yes for sure.

01:19:46: if think about learning in organizations.

01:19:50: Yes, I guess we know that the formal part where it's all structured or clear and has a beginning an ending even score module on some learning management system is only one part of fact the smallest part those containers right?

01:20:08: Where you mentioned connect and have a meaningful conversation again about what we as humans want to bring into the world.

01:20:27: It sounds big, but how do you wanna tackle that problem?

01:20:30: What is bothering us right where there's need?

01:20:33: in US where were curious about it when we wanna celebrate I think that that isn't important.

01:20:39: And yes for sure that will distinguish not only organizations some teams out their Wow, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and it was my pleasure to have both of you here.

01:20:52: And yes whenever you're in Berlin let us know!

01:20:57: Then we will make sure that we can organize a series games with serious change community meeting around your visit.

01:21:08: until then too all our listeners enjoy All the episodes and until next time, bye-bye.

01:21:16: You can reach us at helloatkeylearning.net.

01:21:21: We're looking forward to your suggestions comments and feedback.